John Fryer interview: ‘Punk (pop with attitude) kicked the doors of the music industry wide open’
John Fryer is a multi-platinum, internationally successful record producer, musician, singer-songwriter, and part-time rock star.
John Fryer
John Fryer is a multi-platinum, internationally successful record producer, musician, singer-songwriter, and part-time rock star. He has been making music since 1980—dating back to what we might consider the first wave of New Wave. Working out of Blackwing Studios in London (UK), he collaborated with bands such as Depeche Mode, Fad Gadget, Cocteau Twins, and This Mortal Coil, as well as with groups like Nine Inch Nails, Stabbing Westward, and HIM.
He is also featured on the “Resurgence” compilation box with his notable project BLACK NEEDLE NOISE, released by COP Intl. We sat down with John to reminisce about the good old days.
This interview is part of an ongoing interview series that we do in collaboration with Spleen+ / Alfa Matrix for the massive 6CD post-punk / coldwave / minimal electro boxset “Resurgence”. You can order this fine set as a 6CD set or as a download via Bandcamp.
SL: Tell us more about your current music-related priorities in 2024.
JF: My priority is to make beautiful music with the love of my life, Lady Trace.
SL: What do terms like “post-punk,” “cold wave,” “new wave,” etc., mean for you in your own musical career?
JF: That’s a good question. These labels were coined outside the studio, and while I now realize I was at the epicentre—or the eye of the storm, if you will—at the time, none of that really mattered to me. I was constantly moving from one project to the next, often not even realizing how big some bands became because I was knee-deep in follow-up work. Looking back today, I’d associate those labels with two distinct decades. New wave and post-punk correspond with my time at Blackwing Studios and my work with labels like Mute, Beggars Banquet, Rough Trade, and 4AD in the ’80s—think Depeche Mode, Cocteau Twins, and This Mortal Coil. Cold wave, however, started for me after I left Blackwing and became a freelancer. I spent considerable time in the United States working with Nine Inch Nails, Gravity Kills, and Stabbing Westward—that was the ’90s. After that, the lines began to blur, and music became much more fragmented. Nowadays, almost every month a new label emerges; for instance, what we once called This Mortal Coil is now considered Dreampop—a genre that didn’t even exist when we made the music. In effect, we created Dreampop.
SL: According to you, which elements made those good old days so special?
JF: I believe a major factor was time. Studio time was incredibly expensive, so bands had to come well-prepared, which meant we captured their true essence. Today, you can spend months with your laptop tweaking tracks to the nth degree, but we didn’t have that luxury back then. Another major difference was that you needed to be signed to afford a good studio and producer; if you weren’t signed to a record label, it was much harder to get quality production. Today’s music landscape is entirely different. There are no more “gatekeepers”—those curators with the taste to select bands. Now, it’s hyper-democratic, and everyone can produce and release music almost instantly. Unfortunately, this also tends to dilute quality, making it harder to stand out above all the noise.
SL: Do you see any technological reasons—such as new instruments or recording techniques—that impacted the evolution of post-punk music from the late ’70s and early ’80s?
JF: Absolutely. One of the main reasons was the rapid advancement in recording technology and synthesizers from the ’70s onward. In the late ’70s, more synthesizers from various companies emerged, alongside evolving drum machines and the introduction of early samplers. When I started at Blackwing Studios in London, we recorded on an 8-track tape machine (for example, on Depeche Mode’s first album), and there weren’t any sync options available in the early ’80s for running the sequencer more than once—so everything had to be played live over the top. Companies like Roland and Yamaha eventually developed ways to sync their machines together during the ’80s, albeit independently of each other, which made life a bit easier. Working with Fad Gadget—who blended punk attitudes with electronics—broke new ground and opened doors for others. Before samplers became common, we even created tape loops on a 2-track machine; I remember one loop we did with Fad that went around the room, out into the corridor, and back. We always pushed the boundaries with the technology we had. We also saw tremendous improvements in tape machines—moving from an 8-track to a 16-track, then later combining two 16-track machines to create 32 tracks, and eventually linking two 24-track machines together. By then, we had SMPTE, which became the language of sync, allowing us to lock all tape machines, synths, drum machines, samplers, and sequencers together. What a luxury that was!
SL: What were some of the challenges and obstacles you faced back then, for instance when working as part of This Mortal Coil?
JF: One major challenge was making a string quartet sound like a 40-piece string section. When recording on 24-track tape, we’d record the other parts on the 24-track machine, then bounce that onto a 2-track as a stereo mix. I’d then record that onto a fresh 24-track tape and layer multiple versions of the strings on the remaining tracks. Once the strings were recorded, I’d make a stereo mix of them on the 2-track machine, then manually bounce and sync that mix back onto the original 24-track. That process was extremely challenging—truly a headache trying to get it to sync and sound as if it were recorded on the same machine. Another challenge was performing all the crossfades for the album release. Today, it’s so easy with computers, but back in the ’80s, I had to do it all manually with tape machines. I would mix the tracks, ensuring the levels were even, then record the end of the first track onto the 24-track, and finally record the beginning of the second track manually in the correct spot so I could mix the crossfade back onto the 2-track machine and integrate it into the original mix. Dealing with tape and cutting it with a razor required a steady hand and clear mind—any mistake could be disastrous since you were working with the masters, unlike today with non-destructive edits on computers.
SL: Can you share any stories about collaborations or rivalries within the post-punk scene that have stayed with you?
JF: There are a few memorable ones, though I can’t name names. One session stands out: I worked with a band or duo that couldn’t stand each other and simply couldn’t be in the studio together. They ended up recording one after the other, day in and day out. I spent one day recording with one member, and the next day the other member came in, listened to what we had recorded the day before, and declared, “That is shite—erase it all, and let’s start again.” That was not an easy record to make.
SL: What do you see as the main similarities and differences between today’s alternative music scene in 2024 and what it used to be back in the late ’70s/early ’80s?
JF: The times are radically different. In the ’70s and ’80s, the entry barrier for bands was quite high. That is no longer the case today. Also, the value placed on music has changed. Back then, music was much more central to culture—fashion and music went hand in hand. There were no mobile phones, video games were just emerging in the ’80s, and entertainment options were limited. People like John Peel had an outsized influence; if he played your record on Friday, you could sell 150,000 singles by Monday and become an instant star. I don’t see that kind of impact anymore. Social media can certainly boost artists, but it feels like there is less staying power now, and with so many distractions, an artist can vanish in an instant.
SL: If you could describe this musical movement in just a few words, what would you say?
JF: I’d say that punk—essentially, pop with attitude—kicked the doors of the music industry wide open. Musicians realized they could do whatever they wanted without conforming to the major labels’ mould. A slew of indie labels emerged, giving artists opportunities to express themselves in new ways, sparking tremendous creativity. While punk was raw and brazen, post-punk evolved into something more sophisticated and multilayered, incorporating diverse stylistic ideas and allowing for new forms of self-expression. Additionally, the advent of keyboards and computers in music expanded our musical horizons to where we are today.
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